Discussion:
[Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.48+devel r11870 and Units
Jelle
2012-11-15 07:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi Guys,

Testing this recent build. Inkscape 0.48+devel r11870

So far:

New stuff:
- Love the Symbol manager. It will greatly inprove productivity. I wish
that a similar thing could be done with first level grouped objects and
using the same CTRL+select for objects within that. Ehm,.. a small note
saying Use CTRL+C to copy might help though, as I tried clicking and
dragging first. BTW. If it would follow the rule of always paste in place,
it would be a great help in templating designs.

- The new text edit docker is great! Would have liked to see a list of
fonts used in the document though, so you can more easily select from the
fonts already chosen, find out missing fonts etc.. Could that be added to
a third tab?


Old stuff:
- It's the old clip an object and get to select the object rather than the
clipped area bug. So my clip displays the size of the clipped object
rather than the clipping area. Now really...that is something that needs
fixing.

BTW,.. using the create copy of clipping object to create area rather than
the default. Releasing the clip doesn't recreate a copy of the clipping
object on the screen, clippath is left in defs. So I guess the function
has to be extended with a function to copy that node back to the correct
z-order of the objects.

Question:
- Does Inkscape already support SVG font display (Tiny, not Full)? I know
Mozilla doesn't support it and probably never will, but I really would
love to use them regardless. I have several use cases in mind that are
uniquely possible using SVG fonts and don't care if users will have to use
"Modern" browsers like ahem.. the rest. Now we can create Glyphs, but I am
not sure if it is possible to display them yet.

I'll do more testing during the next few weeks, if there's anything you'd
like me to pay attention to, please tell as there are a lot of things, new
and old.


On the Units discussion:

The idea is simple Inkscape uses px as units. In the config we can set the
amount of pixels per unit, so we end up with 90dpi (standard screenres in
2000) or just set it to 10px per mm or whatever. That way poor buggers
like me that design in mm for print and need to get this used on screen
won't have to use a calculator to convert the x,y locations with a 6
decimal precision and make these horrid choices on how to handle the half
a pixel sizes. Using 3.50xxxx etc. really does my head in at times.
Nowhere in the SVG specs does it implicitly say how many PPI to use, it's
arbitrary. However, as it was concieved to be used as a screen format, it
became pixels per Inch to follow the industry standard. The latter we can
blame on Silicon Valley being the place where the early stages of IT were
conducted rather than Bletchly Park or Paris.

The whole zoom factor is not the issue. It's having a SVG document that
has been converted from mm to Inches and then PPI. If I have a 85x55mm
businesscard, I'd love to be able to read that in the SVG file as 850x550
px rather than 309.2xxxxx x 190.1xxxxx. That way I can more easily create
guidelines and additional objects on screen in my web application without
having to calculate every friggin measurement and ending up with those
quirky estimations. Maybe Inkscape development isn't always a bliss, but I
think with little effort Development using Inkscape can be made a bliss.
Adding a setting for Pixels per Unit will greatly improve my sense of
bliss at least.

For others it may also be a handy way to solve their problems they
encounter with scaling if there was an additional recalculator function
added to this scaling. That would be a nice extension maybe.
"Change/Convert pixels per unit"... Oh joy! I could reset tonnes of hardly
usable SVG code with that..!

Well,.. Cheers

Jelle
Tavmjong Bah
2012-11-15 08:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jelle
Hi Guys,
Testing this recent build. Inkscape 0.48+devel r11870
Thanks for testing.
Post by Jelle
- Love the Symbol manager. It will greatly inprove productivity. I wish
that a similar thing could be done with first level grouped objects and
using the same CTRL+select for objects within that. Ehm,.. a small note
saying Use CTRL+C to copy might help though, as I tried clicking and
dragging first. BTW. If it would follow the rule of always paste in place,
it would be a great help in templating designs.
Glad you love it! It would be possible to do with first level grouped
objects but I think it might be better to use tagged groups, i.e.:

<g -inkscape-role="symbol">...</g>

or

<g role="inkscape:symbol">...</g>

It would be more natural for the dialog to work with dragging. Perhaps
somebody will step up and do it but I don't have time at the moment. As
I understand it, all drop and drag is done by writing to an external
file and the reading it back in. This should be changed, perhaps a GSOC
project?
Post by Jelle
- The new text edit docker is great! Would have liked to see a list of
fonts used in the document though, so you can more easily select from the
fonts already chosen, find out missing fonts etc.. Could that be added to
a third tab?
Might be better to add at the top of the font drop-down list with
missing fonts grayed out.
Post by Jelle
- Does Inkscape already support SVG font display (Tiny, not Full)? I know
Mozilla doesn't support it and probably never will, but I really would
love to use them regardless. I have several use cases in mind that are
uniquely possible using SVG fonts and don't care if users will have to use
"Modern" browsers like ahem.. the rest. Now we can create Glyphs, but I am
not sure if it is possible to display them yet.
Not yet. IE also will not implement SVG fonts (since Mozilla won't).

Tav
Jelle
2012-11-16 01:05:48 UTC
Permalink
New testresults

Select Same

- Great tool! It will make editing a lot faster, maybe adding a dropdown
list for XML attributes and Style attributes would turn it into a real
powertool. Or even better.. a find and replace! That way one could more
easily do a find and replace of font family or delete all styles to clean
the SVG document for use with CSS ;-)

Add some class to a certain type of object would beinteresting as well.

- The Measurement tool is a great idea, but I wonder if it wouldn't be
cool to be able to create a measured line with it. It would require some
checkbutton in the context menu and maybe press "space" to generate the
SVG objects. I take it that they are SVG objects anyway that get drawn? It
would be a great replacement for the extension. Or maybe it is possible to
port all those visualise path functions to this tool?

- The sliders
For color do not move very smoothly when you want to put the value to 100%
opacity using the left mouse button, curiously using the right button
works fine. Once I click it I'd like to be editing the whole number
straight away. Maybe the behaviour might be changed a bit. Left click,
edit value by typing new value, right click drag slider. Or vice versa.

- Speed of refresh
Much improved! Kudo's to all! I can now draw several blurred objects with
opacity, layer them and effectively move them while zoomed in on them in
normal mode.

- Erase tool
Amazing! I guess it now works as intended, erazing on selected object or
every object in stack rather than the behaviour previously. If this could
be combined with the calligraphic tool to make it into an etching type of
tool, it would be far advanced of anything I've seen.

- Gradient fill/stroke
When I dragged my stroke handles and it touched the fill handle centre,
the fill centre moved.

- Drop Shadow
Hah! You beat me to it! It was one of the topics on my wish list..
coloured dropshadows! Joy! The sliders are a bit unpractical though. Maybe
a compass type/joystick button would be better for the offset.

- Filters textures
Whoops.. filter applied to almost the whole page rather than the selected
object, when I drew another object and applied it to it, effect was
correct. Maybe it had to do with the size of my first selected object but
still.

Okay,.. for sofar my latest remarks on the testing. Great job and other
things will take more time to find out I guess.

Cheers!

Jelle
Post by Tavmjong Bah
Post by Jelle
Hi Guys,
Testing this recent build. Inkscape 0.48+devel r11870
Thanks for testing.
Post by Jelle
- Love the Symbol manager. It will greatly inprove productivity. I wish
that a similar thing could be done with first level grouped objects and
using the same CTRL+select for objects within that. Ehm,.. a small note
saying Use CTRL+C to copy might help though, as I tried clicking and
dragging first. BTW. If it would follow the rule of always paste in place,
it would be a great help in templating designs.
Glad you love it! It would be possible to do with first level grouped
<g -inkscape-role="symbol">...</g>
or
<g role="inkscape:symbol">...</g>
Yes,.. but what if the file was not created in Inkscape. Hate to say it,
but there are other ways to create SVG files ;-) If possible I would
rather see a departure of the larding inside the SVG document with
Inkscape tags.
Post by Tavmjong Bah
It would be more natural for the dialog to work with dragging. Perhaps
somebody will step up and do it but I don't have time at the moment. As
I understand it, all drop and drag is done by writing to an external
file and the reading it back in. This should be changed, perhaps a GSOC
project?
Post by Jelle
- The new text edit docker is great! Would have liked to see a list of
fonts used in the document though, so you can more easily select from the
fonts already chosen, find out missing fonts etc.. Could that be added to
a third tab?
Might be better to add at the top of the font drop-down list with
missing fonts grayed out.
What if you have a type soup design with 20 types? Rare and often
disencouraged, but possible. Selecting the 21st one would be a bit
problematic. Using a 3rd tab on the text editor would allow for displaying
some details on the type like width for standard word in px or units in
the current kerning setting. That can be quite handy for a typographer
making a decision.
Post by Tavmjong Bah
Post by Jelle
- Does Inkscape already support SVG font display (Tiny, not Full)? I know
Mozilla doesn't support it and probably never will, but I really would
love to use them regardless. I have several use cases in mind that are
uniquely possible using SVG fonts and don't care if users will have to use
"Modern" browsers like ahem.. the rest. Now we can create Glyphs, but I am
not sure if it is possible to display them yet.
Not yet. IE also will not implement SVG fonts (since Mozilla won't).
Rats! IE is becoming a modern browser again as well... lol. Would be
heartbreaking if MS would have a greater support of SVG than Firefox
though.. haha.
Post by Tavmjong Bah
Tav
And Suv,

Not quite sure whether it is regression or a new bug with the clipping.
The behaviours seem similar and not what we'd like to see.

Cheers,

Jelle
John Smith
2012-11-17 05:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tavmjong Bah
It would be more natural for the dialog to work with dragging.
There is a patch for drag and drop onto the canvas here.
Reusing the existing clipboard code.
Testing always appreciated ...
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1079971
Jelle Mulder
2012-11-18 04:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Thanks John,

But it has been maybe an odd 9 years since I compiled anything, so if it
makes its way into a build, please keep me informed. I wouldn't even know
how to make a makefile anymore. UI, UX, graphics design and a wee bit of
scripting (well,.. more hacking that is) is more my thing. I think I could
do some work in Python, but I certainly do not consider myself a
programmer. There are only so many hours a person can use per day and so
many pursuits to follow..Sadly so, as I have so many interests ;-)

Cheers,

Jelle
Post by John Smith
Post by Tavmjong Bah
It would be more natural for the dialog to work with dragging.
There is a patch for drag and drop onto the canvas here.
Reusing the existing clipboard code.
Testing always appreciated ...
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1079971
~suv
2012-11-15 09:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jelle
- It's the old clip an object and get to select the object rather than the
clipped area bug. So my clip displays the size of the clipped object
rather than the clipping area. Now really...that is something that needs
fixing.
Very likely you are experiencing this regression:
- Bug #1005085 <https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1005085>
“Clipping path not set clipped object to its new size immediately.”

The regression (AFAIU due to cached bbox values) is a temporary issue
and not the same as the old
- Bug #365458 <https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/365458>
“clip object selection glitch”

To the best of my knowledge, that old bug you are hinting at is not back
(i.e. remains fixed in current trunk).


V
mathog
2012-11-15 16:44:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jelle
Would have liked to see a list of
fonts used in the document though, so you can more easily select from the
fonts already chosen, find out missing fonts etc..
I second that and extend the idea slightly.

I have seen imported files (from EMF, but it could be from any source)
where one word or one letter is in some
obscure font, including especially Asian fonts not present on my
system. The most common problem is documents that use
"Times" (a screen font) where "Times New Roman" should be. It is
easier at present to find these using a
text editor on the SVG source than it is to find them through the GUI.
It might be possible to do this with "Find and Replace"
but so far I have never had any success using that tool to locate all
text in "Times" (for instance). If the "Text + Font"
panel had the suggested third panel (for fonts present in the document)
one could select an undesired font (Arial Big5, Times, or whatever) and
(hopefully) check a "select all" box to select all of the affected text.
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